Videos ZFxh7sqbUZo
Teaching AI to Find Real Vulnerabilities — Prof. David Brumley, Bugcrowd
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64 shot(s).
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Transcript
325 cues· 4,949 words· 27,263 chars
- 0:12 All right, everybody, we're going to talk about hacking.
- 0:15 I love hacking.
- 0:16 We have a very small audience here, so I assume everyone here loves hacking as well.
- 0:21 So I wanna talk about designing reinforcement learning environments for cybersecurity tasks.
- 0:25 And essentially we all wanna teach computers to hack because, well, we're pushing out programs faster than ever.
- 0:32 And so we need to be able to check them at machine speeds and scale.
- 0:35 And this has been my research project for well over two decades.
- 0:39 My name is David Brumley.
- 0:40 I am a full professor at Carnegie Mellon University where I work on AI and cybersecurity.
- 0:46 And I'm also a chief AI and science officer at Bug Crowd, where I work on data partnerships.
- 0:51 So before I talk about what we do and how we do it and why it's important to design cybersecurity tasks correctly for reinforcement learning environment, I want to start off with how humans learn because, I mean, I love teaching people to hack.
- 1:05 And I remember in particular a case where we run a hacking contest called Pico CTF.
- 1:10 Pico CTF has about a million high school kids every year play in this contest.
- 1:16 And so it's a really fun way for people to get an intro to cybersecurity.
- 1:19 So in 2016, a young person showed up on our scoreboard who was going by the hacker name Fluorescence.
- 1:26 And typically we know who is doing well in the contest.
- 1:29 It's kind of the typical suspects like a Palo Alto high school or
- 1:34 some of the Washington DDC high schools, we know who's gonna win the contest.
- 1:38 And so this kind of independence starts showing up scoring on our scoreboard and we had no idea who it was.
- 1:44 So we reach out, it's actually a 17 year old kid who found out about cybersecurity trying to get into it from math competitions.
- 1:52 He got bored with the math competitions and started doing them.
- 1:55 And very quickly he ended up actually scoring second in Pico CTF competing against all these high school kids.
- 2:00 And we asked actually,
- 2:02 How did you learn this?
- 2:03 And what he said really was germane to this task.
- 2:07 What I did is I looked at the cybersecurity tasks and then I started Googling
- 2:12 What is the information I needed?
- 2:14 I would read about it, I'd look at write-ups, and then I'd start emulating that.
- 2:17 And this kid actually ended up coming in second.
- 2:20 I recruited him to CMU and he followed this methodology of studying write-ups and practicing cybersecurity on a graduated scale, easy problems first and then slowly getting more difficult.
- 2:32 And he actually turned into what's called a Pwn2Own winner.
- 2:34 So Pwn2Own, if you've never heard of it, is one of the more elite cybersecurity competitions.
- 2:40 This kid, just two years after he first learned cybersecurity, enters, and if you read about it at the time, he was the first one to hack a Tesla.
- 2:49 So he walked out of this contest with $375,000 in cash in a brand new Tesla.
- 2:55 The reason I tell this story is actually the way we teach
- 2:58 AI frontier models to hack is the same way that we've been successful teaching high school students, such as Richard Zhu, to become Pwn2Own winners.
- 3:08 My other students include people like George Hotz, who did the first iPhone jailbreak, and current Pwn2Own winners like Sung Hyun Lee.
- 3:16 And so what I wanna talk about is how we teach reinforcement learning and do it the same way that we've been teaching hacking for a while.
- 3:24 And it really breaks down into two different accesses.
- 3:27 The first thing when designing these sorts of tasks for people is to look at target difficulty.
- 3:34 There's a spectrum of different challenges that you can look at from toy problems through CTF and synthetic problems all the way up to hardened targets.
- 3:43 The second access for teaching machines to hack is really looking at exploitation difficulty.
- 3:49 For example, when we look at a toy program, we may start looking at the sort of skills it needs to acquire to be able to hack that.
- 3:56 For example,
- 3:57 If you have a toy program and it has a bug, can the LLM figure out where the bug is?
- 4:03 Can it then prove that it knows where it is by triggering a crash or some other fault in the program?
- 4:09 But of course, hacking is not just crashing a program.
- 4:11 We want to take control of that program.
- 4:13 That's the beautiful thing about hacking.
- 4:15 It's bending computers to our will.
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Chapters
- 0:00 Two decades of teaching hacking
- 1:54 From CTF scoreboards to CMU
- 3:34 A ladder of exploitation tasks
- 6:44 Why measuring hacking is hard
- 7:46 Flawed grading oracles
- 10:30 When a target has many bugs
- 13:22 Deterministic graders and AIXCC scoring
- 14:49 Precision and recall for vulnerabilities
- 17:35 Attacking V8 in Chrome
- 21:10 41 vulnerabilities and a real zero day
- 25:24 Don't benchmaxx security